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Astronomy & Near Earth Phenomena

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Escape a black hole

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Offline Data Topic starter
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I didn't think anything could escape a black holes gravitational field ?

Either I have read this wrong or science needs a rethink.

Quote
Astronomers believe the jet is made up of highly energised plasma, propelled into space by the supermassive black hole.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32915126
Posted May 29, 2015, 12:46:29 PM Logged

Offline DaveMorton
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I think I see the misunderstanding here, Data. While it's very true that nothing (not even light) can escape the gravity of a black hole once the event horizon has been crossed, it IS possible (and even common) for high energy emissions to do so from just outside it. In fact, due to some interesting things going on that I don't fully understand, jets of high energy particles, such as plasma that's so hot that it emits gamma rays, can be given a "boost" by a sort of slingshot effect, thus being expelled from the "poles" of the black hole at very nearly the speed of light.

Does that clear things up a bit?

Off Topic:
BTW, I just wanted to use the [off-topic ] tag... Tongue
Posted May 29, 2015, 16:33:35 PM Logged
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Offline Data Topic starter
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Thanks Dave, I think that does clear things up a bit  thumbsup

It couldn't have just been me that thought, hang on what's this then ? or maybe it was  Grin

Off Topic:
Never trust an atom... they make up everything!
Posted May 29, 2015, 18:21:47 PM Logged

Offline DaveMorton
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Comfort the Disturbed! Disturb the Comfortable!

Quote from: Data
Off Topic:
Never trust an atom... they make up everything!

rofl

Off Topic:
I like the new look of the off topic container. thumbsup
Off Topic:
Looks like you don't need the closing tag for this, BTW - And I'm testing for nesting...
Posted May 29, 2015, 20:56:29 PM Logged
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Offline Data Topic starter
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Off Topic:
Haven't made a new look to the container, I'm guessing the browser hadn't loaded the CSS

Over all it seems to be working ok  Wink
Posted May 29, 2015, 21:42:05 PM Logged

Offline DaveMorton
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Comfort the Disturbed! Disturb the Comfortable!

That could be it. Oops?
 Smiley
Posted May 29, 2015, 21:43:42 PM Logged
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Offline Carl2
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  I did some research on this and was able to find out that logically and within the laws of physics seems to explain what is happening, it has something to do with quantum mechanics, it's at AI Dreams, I'll have to find it and bring it over here.
Carl2
Posted May 31, 2015, 14:42:43 PM Logged

Offline Carl2
United States Posts: 743
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  Something that has been on my mind for a while and I haven't been able to find an answer, light photons are particles which transmit light, photons have a rest mass of 0,  yet a black hole will attract light.    A black hole is a region of space from which nothing, including light, can escape
The two statements don't seem compatible to me, " but others thought that light had no mass and would not be pulled by gravity"
I'd like to say thanks to everyone that inputed on this topic, I did a little more research and came across this  "Light is often created when energy hits an electron"  that would come under quantum mechanics, the electron can move up and down in the valence shell, when the electron moves down a level electrons release this energy as photons so if we look at the electron that produces the light we do have a mass.
This is something I can find acceptable, on a lighter note I'm not sure how they got that photon to take a rest.
   So that is what I have been able to learn about this and it seems to follow and the laws
Carl2
Posted May 31, 2015, 14:51:59 PM Logged

Offline Data Topic starter
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I'd like to say thanks to everyone that inputed on this topic,

Me too Carl, its been an education  Smiley
Posted June 01, 2015, 17:23:43 PM Logged

Offline Snowcrash
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A photon has no rest mass and can therefore travel at the speed of light. Because E=MC2, energy and mass are interchangeable so the photon has an energy level, measured in eV (electron volts), as do mass particles. Given enough photon energy you could create a mass particle. Light always follows a straight line (Euclidian geometry)

Black holes twist space and time to such an extent everything falls into them. The space around them is non Euclidian and all straight lines converge. Analogous to parallel lines of longitude converging at the poles. Technically the lines of spacetime converge at a singularity, the black hole is the event horizon that you can't see past.

As black holes feed on matter, it gets accelerated around it's equator in an accretion disc. The high temperatures of the accretion disc is what we can directly detect. This spinning, very hot matter, can be thrown off at the poles of the black hole as jets of matter travelling very close to the speed of light. The rest gets sucked down never to be seen again except as mass of the black hole and information in the event horizon's surface area. And Hawking radiation.

That's how I see it. All errors are mine and not necessarily how a physicist sees it.
Posted June 04, 2015, 23:03:07 PM
Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 14:05:03 PM by DaveMorton
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“I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.”

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline Carl2
United States Posts: 743
Rank: Baron

Snowcrash,
Impressive statements which I'm not sure I understand at this time.  I did run into one stumbling block, E = MC2 and a photon has no mass, therefore E = 0 x C3 which = O therefore it has no mass or energy.  But that is when the photon is at rest  so we'll put that a side.  Next is light always travels in a straight line, very commonly held belief which I disagree with because the speed of light is dependent on the media it travels through I believe it is slower and created the illusion that the stick is bent, the reason glasses work.  This is also the reason we might say light bends as it approaches earth.
  I'm dealing with trivialities because these are things I don't understand. As far as Black holes twisting space and time, to my belief we don't even know what time is "Time has long been a major subject of study in religion, philosophy, and science, but defining it in a manner applicable to all fields without circularity has consistently eluded scholars." and someone said since we can not define time it must not exist. 
  Over all I respect your beliefs and you have covered much more ground than I have. Very interesting points you brought up and an interesting topic.
Carl2
Posted June 05, 2015, 00:56:00 AM Logged

Offline Snowcrash
England Global Moderator
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M=E/C2
A photon has energy (eV) divided by C2 = a very small mass equivalent.

Light travels in straight lines. It's speed alters in different mediums so can appear to bend but all that is changing is the angle of diffraction as it enters/leaves different mediums. Space if pretty much nothing so light always travels in a straight line. Einstein states time is a part of space and can't be used separately, hence spacetime. Gravity is the bending of spacetime so light travels the "bent" straight lines. If you can get your head around that.
I am more than happy that I know what time is. Unless you want me to define it.  Grin Same with life.
Posted June 06, 2015, 11:43:05 AM
Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 14:37:06 PM by DaveMorton
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“I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.”

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline Carl2
United States Posts: 743
Rank: Baron

   I have to agree you've held up your end of the conversation, and I can find evidence that supports what you have said.  I've always admired Einstein but in my younger days  I always wondered what made him think about such strange topics and I've seen it said a very small number of people were able to understand what it was he was saying.  I not long ago saw an article that light had a longer wavelength after passing through a cold zone. 
  Anyways I am very dependent on definitions, helps keep the apples and oranges separate and I always disagreed with the speed of light in a vacuum although I had to disregarded my opinions when being tested.  Lately I seen reports saying there may be something faster than the speed of light.
  Don't think I can say much about time since there is no definition.
Carl2
 
Posted June 07, 2015, 02:25:03 AM Logged
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