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DatahopaForumComputer RelatedPC Hardwarethinking about a new pc and server



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thinking about a new pc and server

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Offline sybershot Topic starter
United States WWW Posts: 1429
Rank: Certified

Tax time is coming and when it does
I am thinking about building a new pc and re-purposing some of my old hardware as a server,
or upgrade my pc and buy a re-manufactured blade server
So I need some help deciding which would be best to do.
I will discuss the server first then the pc

building or buying a server, I am unsure of what hardware, os and software is best to use for my server needs/wants
I am heavily leaning towards windows server operating system, just not sure what edition i should get,
however i may be persuaded away for nothing is written in stone yet.


list of server services wanted and or needed now or in the future
   host multiple vm's
   host websites and apps to test website and app builds
   data storage
   back-up multiple pc's and devices
   access pcs and data from anywhere
   stream media video and audio
   home security cam system (definite eventually)
   smart home (definite eventually)
   serve applications


list of some types of virtual machines I will have

multiple windows and linux versions
   for testing and to host different os programs

apache and IIS (microsoft web platform)
   for testing and building websites

and maybe a couple of open source server operating systems
   for testing and running services not available with windows


Okay now for the new pc build or upgrade

current system
cpu: core i7-3770k not overclocked
gpu: evga gtx 670 ftw+ 4gb 256-bit gddr5 pci express 3.0 x 16 hdcp
ram: corsair vengeance 16gb (2x8) ddr3 1600 (pc3 12800)
mobo: MSI Z77a-gd65 lga 1155
psu: corsair enthusiast series tx650 (80 bronze plus)
main internal ssd: 128 ocz vertex 4
internal hhd: 1tb

upgrades I am thinking about:
gpu: upgrade to a nvidia gtx 1080 ftw
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487266&ignorebbr=1
ssd: upgrade main drive to a Intel Optane SSD 900P (280GB, AIC PCIe 3.0 x4, 20nm, 3D XPoint)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167437&ignorebbr=1
case: upgrade pc case to a Thermaltake Tower 900 Snow Edition
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133327&ignorebbr=1

new system I am thinking about (new system includes upgrades listed above)
cpu: Intel Core i9-7900X Skylake-X 10-Core 3.3 GHz
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G5XA9801&ignorebbr=1
ram: quad channel CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233887&ignorebbr=1
mobo: MSI X299 RAIDER LGA 2066 Intel X299
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144059&ignorebbr=1
Posted January 02, 2018, 02:00:14 AM Logged

Offline Data
United Kingdom Administrator
Posts: 5274
Rank: Certified

You must have some serious amount of cash coming your way Syber.

As for the server I have to admit it's out of my comfort zone.

Regarding the new PC build, It's interesting to see how AMD's new Ryzen platform has had such a huge impact on prices, Intel have been forced to lower their top end CPU's, which is a good thing.

I don't know what you intended to do with all them 10 cores but consider the fact the more cores tends to end up with lower clock speeds, so unless you are going to utilize all them cores you would be better off getting less cores with higher clock speeds.

However if you do need loads of cores then AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950x (16 core 32 thread CPU) is a serious contender, it's quicker than the Core i9-7900X at stock speeds in most benchmarks.

There, my thoughts  Smiley
Posted January 02, 2018, 11:40:42 AM
Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 12:23:40 PM by Data
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Offline DaveMorton
United States WWW Global Moderator
Posts: 2782
Rank: Certified
Comfort the Disturbed! Disturb the Comfortable!

You're expecting too much from one system, Syber. You would be much better off getting more, lower spec machines, purpose-built for specific roles than to build some huge behemoth that would struggle to handle everything at the same time. You'll actually save money in the process, too. this may sound counter-intuitive, but I've got some experience in the matter, so let me lay out the reasons why:

1.) Having had web servers on my computers for nearly 2 decades, I can tell you that you don't need huge, fast processors, tons of RAM, or even terabytes of drive space. The thing you need with a server stack is a robust network connection. I have 8 major websites and many dozen smaller ones (sites, not pages - I have HUNDREDS of individual pages) hosted on my computer, and the server software (including several DB servers, language processors, and a Linux shell) kept on 2 quarter terabyte drives. NEITHER drive is more than 15-20% full, so drive space is not a huge issue. Most full stack server machines for small business use have no more than 4 cores, no more than 8GB RAM, and no more than 1TB drive space, and your needs aren't going to be any greater than what even I do, let alone small business intranet server use.

2.) Virtual machines DO eat up a lot of drive space, as well as processor power. I know, because I have several, and often have multiple VM's running at once when I'm testing Program O, or other websites to make sure they work. the problem is, when these VM's are running, they compete with other things that are also running, and with a VM there's no such thing as running "in the background" with a VM. BTW, each VM should be limited to using only one core or thread. You won't be doing anything CPU intensive in any one of them (at least I HOPE not), so assigning any more than that is just a waste of resources. The same thing goes for RAM. Additionally, if all you're using the VM for is running web servers, it should be on the same computer as your main web server, and while it's very difficult, you can get every VM to point to the same shared folder on the MAIN computer so that you don't need to move files around to do testing, which saves considerable time and effort in the long run. I'll get into setup specs for VM's in a different post.

3.) Virtually everything you're listing that you want to do with a single, new computer I'm already doing, but not well, if I'm honest. The video cards are already burned out, and the rest of the system has dropped in performance considerably, and will be needing to be replaced soon. the more than $5,000 dollars I spent would have been much less had I got one machine for my everyday/graphics use, and one for my web servers and VM's. Looking back, I could have probably spent far less money had I gone that route, and be better off as a result.

I have a Skype meeting in a few minutes, so I'll get into suggestions about software in a bit. Please consider what I've said.
Posted January 02, 2018, 14:42:07 PM Logged
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Offline sybershot Topic starter
United States WWW Posts: 1429
Rank: Certified

Data, thanks for the reply
Quote
You must have some serious amount of cash coming your way Syber.
tax time is coming and i figure I might be getting about 2 to 3,000 back from uncle sam aka our govenment.

Quote
As for the server I have to admit it's out of my comfort zone.
no worries my friend it is all good  thumbsup

Quote
I don't know what you intended to do with all them 10 cores
virtualization and content creation, I sometimes have 4 or more vm's running and each usually do an intensive task like 3d rendering and video rendering.

Quote
However if you do need loads of cores then AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950x (16 core 32 thread CPU) is a serious contender
I would never buy AMD, it is a pet peve of mine, nothing is wrong with them, for some reason I just do not like em (reason unknown)  scratch-head

Dave thanks for the wisdom, I remember when you built your rig, for I built mine around the same time I believe i spent a little less $ but not by much  Tongue

My machine still runs super strong, and that is the reason i thought if i build a new rig, this old one would make one super server especially if i upped the ram from 16 to 32gb

I am more interested in having a server than a new main rig for this one atm still suits my needs, besides lacking storage space, but a server would solve that issue.  Wink

I played around with the components of a new main rig, and price is about 3,200 complete and I would have another main rig to get me past the next 5 years
then i would be able to turn this pc into a server.

however I also played around with server components, and i could build a decent one for around $1,500
which would save me a good chunk of cash up front, but in a year or 2 when this pc does not work for me I would have to spend again to build another main rig, and then I would have this old rig to do nothing with.

decisions decisions decisions

edit:
Quote
you can get every VM to point to the same shared folder on the MAIN computer so that you don't need to move files around to do testing, which saves considerable time and effort in the long run. I'll get into setup specs for VM's in a different post.
I already do this with all my vm's  Wink



Posted January 03, 2018, 01:01:42 AM
Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 01:24:19 AM by sybershot
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Online Freddy
United Kingdom WWW Administrator
Posts: 3480
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I don't get the server side. Is it a local network server for storage and streaming ?
Posted January 03, 2018, 01:14:59 AM Logged

Offline sybershot Topic starter
United States WWW Posts: 1429
Rank: Certified

Quote
I don't get the server side. Is it a local network server for storage and streaming ?
Hi Freddy, I guess the term would be a home server, yes storage and streaming capabilities is a must, but it also needs a lot more features. I need more than just a nas storage system.

windows had a home server operating system named "windows home server" but it appears they did away with support for it, from what I read online. I am thinking about getting there "windows server essentials" or "windows server standard" for the server operating system.




Posted January 03, 2018, 01:43:59 AM Logged

Online Freddy
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So home automation and things like that ?
Posted January 03, 2018, 01:48:54 AM Logged

Offline sybershot Topic starter
United States WWW Posts: 1429
Rank: Certified

my home lab aka server will indeed need home automation, home monitoring they are a couple other things i need the server to be capable of handling,
I also need the server to be able to run multiple vm's , I was also thinking about a mail client, and whole lot of other types of servers types all running on one home server.
Posted January 03, 2018, 02:08:14 AM Logged

Online Freddy
United Kingdom WWW Administrator
Posts: 3480
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Sorry after rereading the original post I see you already established that.

What's the beefy GPU for ? Rendering ? Further VR work ?
Posted January 03, 2018, 13:42:23 PM Logged

Offline DaveMorton
United States WWW Global Moderator
Posts: 2782
Rank: Certified
Comfort the Disturbed! Disturb the Comfortable!

Don, I think that trying to do graphics rendering (especially the 3D variety) on a VM is rather pointless due to the additional overhead (and either indirect or nonexistent access to the GPU) involved. Unless you're running rendering software that isn't compatible on the host machine, such as using *nix-based software, it makes no sense to run it on a VM, so please explain this to me so that I understand.
Posted January 03, 2018, 14:00:14 PM Logged
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Online Freddy
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Yes that concerned me too as GPU is waaayy faster than CPU for rendering and video editing. I have 6 cores and I turn off the CPU for rendering as it adds nothing beneficial.
Posted January 03, 2018, 14:02:36 PM Logged

Offline sybershot Topic starter
United States WWW Posts: 1429
Rank: Certified

big picture to have a 12u rack server on the side of my desk. beginning with a single 2 or 4u rack case.

So my thought are to use a Quadro gpu on the server to handle the rendering needs of the programs on the servers main os. still researching to see if this is possible on todays server software or if i would need to run them on a vm running on the server.

right now i run all my programs for content creation on vm's that are stored on a separate drive than my main os. I was sure to give these vm's plenty of resources, and it shares a shared folder with my main os. it was my fix to having to re-install all those programs every time I had to re do the operating system.

I also have another vm that I use for website creation, app,  and program creation that share the same shared folder with main system as well.

I also have wamp installed on main os for testing website builds

and my music and videos are also in the shared folder and i use a few programs to access the media.

All these I want to move to a server, and or servers, I also like the fact that with a server I can back up multiple devises/pc's, folder and have system access away from home, have clients look at work progress, and the capabilities to have a mail server, print server, etc.

and eventually I want to get a backup file server that hosts 10 to 20 SATA hard drives that back up all the servers.

the geek side of me would also like to try and build a Jarvis that runs on the server or a vm on the server that I can access anywhere.  Grin

Sorry guys but I hope this helps clear things up, I guess i should of put all this in the first post originally  Embarrassed

Posted January 04, 2018, 00:56:03 AM Logged

Online Freddy
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What kind of rendering do you see yourself doing ?
Posted January 04, 2018, 23:53:37 PM Logged

Offline sybershot Topic starter
United States WWW Posts: 1429
Rank: Certified

Freddy here are the Programs i use to render and what i render with them

Vagas pro for video rendering
Adobe premier and after effects (part of adobe cs5.5)for video rendering as well

I use Daz studio to render 3d modeled images and lip sync videos

I also use maya and 3ds max to render 3d modeled images
Posted January 05, 2018, 01:08:33 AM Logged

Offline sybershot Topic starter
United States WWW Posts: 1429
Rank: Certified

Quote
Don, I think that trying to do graphics rendering (especially the 3D variety) on a VM is rather pointless due to the additional overhead (and either indirect or nonexistent access to the GPU) involved. Unless you're running rendering software that isn't compatible on the host machine, such as using *nix-based software, it makes no sense to run it on a VM, so please explain this to me so that I understand.


Since i got my pc back from parents I have all my programs running on vm's and I have been rendering just fine, not using any other software (*nix based???)

I create a vm with lots of system resources and install graphics drivers and other pc drivers, and then the programs I plan to use. programs listed in above post.
Posted January 05, 2018, 01:27:10 AM Logged
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