Alligator Aviation

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Alligator
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Offline DD1975 Topic starter
England Posts: 1458
Rank: Certified

Alligator


Say what you like about the Russina, there kit isn't pretty but it does look mean!!!!


Posted April 08, 2013, 18:23:49 PM Logged
Smoke me a Kipper I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer

Offline Diesel
England Posts: 901
Rank: Baron

Re: Alligator


From underneath, it looks like a Slimmed down, Jazzed up version of Thunder Bird Two, with two large Cooling Fans bolted on top.  Grin








Posted April 08, 2013, 19:50:45 PM Logged
It WILL be fine !...

Offline DD1975 Topic starter
England Posts: 1458
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


LOL

Posted April 08, 2013, 19:52:34 PM Logged
Smoke me a Kipper I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer

Offline sybershot
United States WWW Posts: 1635
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


Credit due, it does look mean and pretty cool.
Though I never liked the double rotor setups, for they remind me of a cheap toy.
What is this gyro's main purpose, hopefully not attack.

Posted April 09, 2013, 14:00:01 PM Logged

Offline DD1975 Topic starter
England Posts: 1458
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


It's in the same class as the Apache Syber so yes attack, it comes in two versions the single seat KA-50 Black Shark and the two seat KA-52 Alligator.

Posted April 09, 2013, 20:35:46 PM Logged
Smoke me a Kipper I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer

Offline sybershot
United States WWW Posts: 1635
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


It's main purpose is attack, I'm  Shocked

Posted April 09, 2013, 21:28:04 PM Logged

Offline DD1975 Topic starter
England Posts: 1458
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


Like the Apache it's designed more as a stand off type rather than sitting right over the target by all accounts it pretty effective.

Posted April 10, 2013, 09:05:42 AM Logged
Smoke me a Kipper I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer

Offline sybershot
United States WWW Posts: 1635
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


This vide shows a bit of it's capabilities, pretty impressive if I do say so myself


Posted April 10, 2013, 12:19:45 PM Logged

Offline DD1975 Topic starter
England Posts: 1458
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


Nice find syber, I suspect the counter rotating rotors generat more lift and thats why they use them, Kamov apparently use them on nearly all their designs.

I also think I prefer the side by side arrangement of the pilot and weapons operator over the front to back arrangement of the apache, it makes communication less difficult in case of a radio failure!!

Posted April 10, 2013, 15:04:33 PM Logged
Smoke me a Kipper I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer

Offline Snowcrash
England Global Moderator
Posts: 2241
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


Nice find syber, I suspect the counter rotating rotors generat more lift and thats why they use them, Kamov apparently use them on nearly all their designs.

I don't think it's only a lift thing. Being counter rotating it does away with a tail rotor/jet nozzle for more stability.
The rotors being on top of each other would tend to lose overall lift to rotor surface area/speed.
A Chinook layout would be better for lift but less manoeuvrable.

Posted April 10, 2013, 19:57:01 PM Logged
“I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.”

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline DD1975 Topic starter
England Posts: 1458
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


Good point snowy, that probably accounts for the longer winglets to make up for any loss of lift which of course means more external stores can be carried too. Not a bad trade off!

Posted April 10, 2013, 20:27:24 PM Logged
Smoke me a Kipper I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer

Offline sybershot
United States WWW Posts: 1635
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100513102618AAzzMpD

has some good info about the Alligator vs the apache though I'm not sure of the credentials.

Posted April 10, 2013, 21:19:33 PM Logged

Offline DD1975 Topic starter
England Posts: 1458
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


Apart from the fact that the top answer is talking about the single seat KA-50 Black Shark not the KA-52 Alligator he seems to have missed the 30mm cannon that the Alligator has and stated thatn it has 4 wing pylons not 6!!!!

This is from the WIKI and follows up on Snowys point:

Like other Kamov helicopters, it features Kamov's characteristic contra-rotating co-axial rotor system, which removes the need for the entire tail rotor assembly and improves the aircraft's aerobatic qualities—it can perform loops, rolls and "the funnel" (circle-strafing), where the aircraft maintains a line-of-sight to the target while flying circles of varying altitude, elevation and airspeed around it. Using two rotors means that a smaller rotor with slower-moving rotor tips can be used compared to a single-rotor design. Since the speed of the advancing rotor tip is a primary limitation to the maximum speed of a helicopter, this allows a faster maximum speed than helicopters such as the AH-64. The elimination of the tail rotor is a qualitative advantage because the torque-countering tail rotor can use up to 30% of engine power. Furthermore, the vulnerable boom and rear gearbox are fairly common causes of helicopter losses in combat; the Black Shark's entire transmission presents a comparatively small target to ground fire.


Posted April 10, 2013, 22:55:04 PM Logged
Smoke me a Kipper I'll be back for breakfast - Ace Rimmer

Offline Snowcrash
England Global Moderator
Posts: 2241
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


Found this and thought it fairly relevant.



I never knew about this effect. Did anyone else?

And this is cool and informative.


Posted April 13, 2013, 18:46:08 PM Logged
“I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.”

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Online Freddy
United Kingdom WWW Administrator
Posts: 6386
Rank: Certified

Re: Alligator


I think it's probably a rare thing when I know something about Physics that you don't already know.  But yes I knew about precession and the 90 degrees thing.  This was demonstrated to us in a great experiment my Physics teacher ran.

So we had a circular platform which one could stand on and it would rotate you freely.  Ie you are standing upright and can rotate 360 degrees all round.

Then whilst on the platform you are given a bicycle wheel complete with axle so that the wheel can be set spinning. Somewhat like they did in that video.

So we are on the rotating platform and we are holding the wheel out in front of us by the axle each side of the wheel and someone starts it spinning - as if we are the front fork and wheel of a bike.

The net result of the system is a force at 90 degrees to the spinning wheel and this has the effect of causing the person to rotate on the platform.  Weee !

I hope I explained that right.  Cheesy

Posted April 13, 2013, 18:58:59 PM
Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 20:55:43 PM by Freddy
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